Waiting for the marriage license - The PASH Wedding Forums and Message Boards

imstilldreaming · #1 02-05-2007, 01:37 AM

We were thinking of waiting until January 08 to get our marriage license (we're marrying in April of this year.) FH is starting grad school in the fall (hopefully me too!!) and since I make quite a bit more than he does, I don't want to screw up his aid and grants. I realize we don't have to file our taxes together when we're married, but some of the forms and applications still ask for the spouse's income. It will work out if we get it in January 08 since his 06-07 year is based on his last year's income (which was nothing) and his 07-08 year will be based on this current year, where he is currently working a couple of part time jobs.

I'm wondering if anyone else waiting on getting their license and if they had any issues with their officiant? I know some people consider it a 'sham' marriage if you don't actually have the license and I'm afraid our officiant won't marry us. It bothers me a little but it's certainly worth saving thousands of dollars. Anyone?

ljeagle · #2 02-05-2007, 01:43 AM

My officiant would not marry us with out it. I know a couple that had to put there wedding off a week cause they didn't get to the court house in time. I would check with the officiant. You only have so many days after you are married to send in the paper that the officiant married you. So if you wait you will have to go over the ceremony part again.

imstilldreaming · #3 02-05-2007, 02:04 AM

Does that mean that you just go to the courthouse and have someone be a witness and sign the paperwork?

ljeagle · #4 02-05-2007, 02:10 AM

Right but most officiant won't marry you with out that paper. Cause it really means your not married with out it in the government eyes and most peoples eyes. That being said if you have a baby b-4 then it would show you wasn't married cause it would have your maiden name on the birth cert.

When you fill for Finial Aid for the fall term would it not go on what he made last year? With you not being married till this year I don't think it would go into finial aid till Jan 08. Plus with both of you going to school that would help out with Aid. I would go talk to a Finical Aid person b-4 I would do it.

Kim&Bob2004 · #5 02-05-2007, 02:17 AM

Our Pastor mailed the paper work himself. So you best check on that too.

ETA: I just don't know about how ethical it would be, nor if you could even legally do it...

I wish I could help more. Trust me I know about it messing with fin aid. I went from getting a small pell grant to getting NOTHING! And we aren't wealthy.

imstilldreaming · #6 02-05-2007, 02:17 AM

We're close with our officiant so I guess we'll just have to talk to her and see what she says.

I think I messed up the dates...He's starting this fall, 07. So that means if we got a license this year, everything for 08 would be on our combined income from 07, when we are currently not in school and working full time. So his financial aid for 08-09 would be based on my income too...yeah I definitely messed up the dates. So 07-08 will be based on 06, but 08-09 will be based on 07, when I'm making pretty good money and neither of us are full time students.

imstilldreaming · #7 02-05-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim&Bob2004

Our Pastor mailed the paper work himself. So you best check on that too.

Yup. People DO get married at the court house though, don't they? So as long as it was okay with our officiant, we could go to the court house in January 08 without a big hubbub, couldn't we?

Kim&Bob2004 · #8 02-05-2007, 02:30 AM

I guess you could "lawfully" marry your FH this year and "legally" marry in Jan 08, if you could find someone to do so or your pastor would do so.

A couple cons though:

Lets say you get pregnant, God forbid something happens to DH, but something did. Legally you aren't married, so you would not be entitled to his Social Security (what I think they call a dependent care death benefit or something). Nor would he if something happened to you, and he had to be taking care of a baby by himself. If I understand that aspect of the law right... (I had a college classmate who married, they got pregnant fairly fast and then he died tragically..... before the baby was even born....... so these things can happen, God forbid).

What about insurance, including life????

There are other issues too, and they deal with your rights as a wife and the time you spend legally married.... I know it sounds sinister to think that way..... but life is life. My mom never dreamed she would be facing retirement with out her husband. He just was there one minute and gone the next.

ljeagle · #9 02-05-2007, 02:30 AM

Are you going to tell people you are waiting till Jan. to make it legal. That being said I look at it that your really not getting married you just want to celebrate something thats going to happen next year. I could see someone maybe waiting a month but waiting 9 months down the road is a while. Can you just not put the wedding off till Jan of next year.

whiddle · #10 02-05-2007, 02:37 AM

If you are both in college, they will divide your EFC by 2.

I don't think the officiant will perform a ceremony without the marriage license.

You can file his FAFSA this year before you get married. If they ask for spouse info, that's simple: he doesn't have one. Once you get married, they won't ask for an update. If you get married this April, it won't affect his aid until Fall 2008. That's the same time it would affect it if you got married January 2008 (assuming you wouldn't have filed both your taxes and FAFSA by the end of January).

Heather · #11 02-05-2007, 02:43 AM

You have to get your marriage license within 30 days of marrying, likewise, you have to marry within 30 days of getting your license. Your officiant has to sign, date and mail it in within 5 to 7 days of the legal ceremony or you are not legally married. (Check with your State laws b/c this can vary.)

imstilldreaming · #12 02-05-2007, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljeagle

Are you going to tell people you are waiting till Jan. to make it legal. That being said I look at it that your really not getting married you just want to celebrate something thats going to happen next year. I could see someone maybe waiting a month but waiting 9 months down the road is a while. Can you just not put the wedding off till Jan of next year.

I guess that depends on your definition of marriage. Gay people can't get married but I certainly see gay people who have made a committment to each other as married. And seeing as I have almost everything done, I can't really put it off until next year without losing a lot of money. It's really just an issue of how the financial aid system works for graduate study, it has nothing to do with our readiness to get married.

I appreciate everyone's comments, I guess we're really just going to have to talk to a financial aid person and figure out what we can do.

wynelle · #13 02-05-2007, 02:53 AM

You cannot be legally married without a marriage license. The officiant signs the marriage license and returns it to the Courthouse to be filed.

Without a legally filed marriage license, you are not husband and wife. There are a lot of entitlements, Social Security issues, tax issues, etc.

Most officiants will not marry someone without a license--that little phrase "By the power invested to me by God and the State of _____, I pronounce you man and wife"... well, they would be committing something like perjury, or false official statements, etc.

Not to mention the deceit and fraud you would be perpetrating on your friends and family.

It's one thing to have a quiet private ceremony and then have a large public ceremony after a few months. But to falsely present yourselves as husband and wife...totally different matter. And for just the benefit of getting a few more dollars in tution assistance??

imstilldreaming · #14 02-05-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim&Bob2004

I guess you could "lawfully" marry your FH this year and "legally" marry in Jan 08, if you could find someone to do so or your pastor would do so.

A couple cons though:

Lets say you get pregnant, God forbid something happens to DH, but something did. Legally you aren't married, so you would not be entitled to his Social Security (what I think they call a dependent care death benefit or something). Nor would he if something happened to you, and he had to be taking care of a baby by himself. If I understand that aspect of the law right... (I had a college classmate who married, they got pregnant fairly fast and then he died tragically..... before the baby was even born....... so these things can happen, God forbid).

What about insurance, including life????

There are other issues too, and they deal with your rights as a wife and the time you spend legally married.... I know it sounds sinister to think that way..... but life is life. My mom never dreamed she would be facing retirement with out her husband. He just was there one minute and gone the next.

Thanks for mentioning these things Kim, I hadn't even thought about any of them.

imstilldreaming · #15 02-05-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wynelle

Not to mention the deceit and fraud you would be perpetrating on your friends and family.

It's one thing to have a quiet private ceremony and then have a large public ceremony after a few months. But to falsely present yourselves as husband and wife...totally different matter. And for just the benefit of getting a few more dollars in tution assistance??

Like I said, I suppose it depends on your definition of marriage and who constitutes a married couple. I think 'deceit and fraud' are a little harsh. And it definitely wouldn't be a few dollars, it would be the difference of thousands of dollars. We are relatively young, and yes, thousands of dollars do make a difference to us.

whiddle · #16 02-05-2007, 03:08 AM

I would file his FAFSA now and then get married in April (for real). I would NOT advise that you pretend to be married. You won't be able to lie about it forever and people are going to end up feeling lied to or hurt.

NovemberGal · #17 02-05-2007, 03:11 AM

I know this is harsh, but if your married status impacts your finances that much, maybe you should wait the year so that it doesn't. And I mean wait a year for the whole big ceremony...I think it would be very odd to have a "wedding ceremony" when you weren't actually going to be married for another year.

Anyway, you cannot be legally married without a license. Any pastor who does is breaking the law, as Wynelle pointed out. It varies by state what the time limit is (I think we had 60 days from the date of getting the license, and then the signed paperwork from our priest had to be returned to the courthouse within a week). But NO ONE with authority to marry you (religious or secular) can do so without the license. So in your senario, you'd basically be acting out a wedding, but not getting married, if your officiant would even go along with it. And I'm sorry, I do think that counts as deceit towards the friends and family invited, who think they are witnessing your marriage but are not.

As far as your taxes, you can file separately when you are married, but you are NOT filing as single. If you are married for any part of the tax year, you MUST file as either married filing jointly, or married filing singly (which except in some specific cases, is a poor idea, financially, and costs you money. Basically, getting married screws you at tax time, but filing jointly is the better of the two options for most couples. Go to H&R Block or some such if you have complicated situations).

I'm sorry you're in this difficult situation. I know that academic finances are a b!tch. But, and this is my personal opinion, I think you need to either find a way to suck up the financial negatives, or wait to get married until it will not impact you so much if you really can't afford it. Or, as whiddle mentions, file as much of the paperwork now as you can, so you/he can legally claim single status, and take the rest as you can.

Leslee&Jake · #18 02-05-2007, 04:04 AM

I really understand that financial aid sucks major a$$!!! BUT I did have an advisor tell me that when I get married I might get more help! Especially if both are in college! I wouldnt mess around with the financial aid and take what you can get. (IMHO)

AshyBekka · #19 02-05-2007, 01:28 PM

I'm still not sure why you wouldn't just fill out your FAFSA now (I got the renewal notice weeks ago) while you and your fiance's status is "single." They won't require an update after April. Problem solved, wouldn't it?

Would you tell your friends and family that you're not legally getting married? I mean, if that's what you want to do and no one in either family and none of your friends are disturbed by it, then I guess that's one thing, but if you're not telling them, then I think that's a big problem. I'm just not comfortable with starting the marriage from the get-go with a lie, regardless of whether you think it comes to the level of "fraud and deceit." But it's your marriage, and I imagine regardless of what advice you get here, you've already made a decision one way or the other.

I'm also not sure about the comparison to gay couples. Gay couples can't get married in a lot of places, but they still want to publicly make a commitment to each other with their friends and family. This is an ongoing struggle for them, and the outward expression of something very personal. Comparing those issues to you and your FH's desire to preserve his financial aid -- however justified that concern is -- cheapens the very thing that gay couples are striving for. I'm not sure that something that has been compared to the civil rights struggle has much to do with financial aid.

imstilldreaming · #20 02-05-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshyBekka

I'm also not sure about the comparison to gay couples. Gay couples can't get married in a lot of places, but they still want to publicly make a commitment to each other with their friends and family. This is an ongoing struggle for them, and the outward expression of something very personal. Comparing those issues to you and your FH's desire to preserve his financial aid -- however justified that concern is -- cheapens the very thing that gay couples are striving for. I'm not sure that something that has been compared to the civil rights struggle has much to do with financial aid.

I was responding the comments that not have a license makes you not married. Gay couples who have commitment ceremonies consider themselves just as married as if they were legally recognized by the state. So would I. But if we make that decision, that's the decision we would make, it wouldn't be forced on us. I do recognize that this scenario is completely different.

If we did decide to do this, we would tell friends and family. Our friends and family are the kind of people who would understand this and in no way would see it as a fraud. We've been dating for four and a half years, in no way is this saying we are not ready for marriage or need to put it off. It was the solution we saw to the problem. I didn't realize that so many put such an emphasis on a piece of paper. Did everyone here not really feel married until they got that piece of paper?

AshyBekka · #21 02-05-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imstilldreaming

Did everyone here not really feel married until they got that piece of paper?

I think that's looking at it the wrong way. Legally speaking, regardless of how we felt, we weren't married until we got that piece of paper. On the same token, one could argue that you don't need to have a big wedding with the dress and the reception and all, so therefore waiting til you actually got the license at the courthouse after your FH finished school wouldn't make you any less married. The difference is-you can be legal without a big wedding, you can't without that piece of paper.

ohiobride · #22 02-05-2007, 01:58 PM

I believe officiants are possibly putting their ordinations in jeopardy if they perform a "marriage" and there's no license. My officiant is my aunt, and I know she won't do it without the license. They certainly can officiate at a "committal" service, but not actually perform a marriage ceremony.

imstilldreaming · #23 02-05-2007, 01:59 PM

I see what your saying but in our case, the big wedding doesn't matter that much to us either. We're having a wedding because our parents wanted us to, otherwise we were going to elope. To us, our relationship means what it means, it isn't defined by what the state says it us. Obviously it does according to things like taxes and social security, but if that's not why we want to get married and so it's secondary. Honestly, we're really pretty ambivalent about the outward expression because inwardly we know we're there. I really had no idea I was opening up a can of worms here. I guess because we are so ambivalent about it, it's hard for us to understand why others would get so upset about it.

So, agree to disagree!

I appreciate everyone's comments and I think I have plenty of advice, so unless you simply can't help yourself, I consider this thread closed, at least for my purposes.

Heather · #24 02-05-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imstilldreaming

I didn't realize that so many put such an emphasis on a piece of paper. Did everyone here not really feel married until they got that piece of paper?

I really understand your problem, but what it looks to me like people are trying to say is that you're not married unless you have that piece of paper. Aside from what people feel about this ethically, your officiant can't legally marry you until you have the license.

Can you have the ceremony and reception that you planned, and then hit the courthouse or Vegas later? (With your family and friends knowing of course.)

imstilldreaming · #25 02-05-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heather

Can you have the ceremony and reception that you planned, and then hit the courthouse or Vegas later? (With your family and friends knowing of course.)

That's really the scenario we had in mind.