i dont think i agree... - The PASH Wedding Forums and Message Boards

uNF_Rena · #1 05-23-2006, 02:19 AM

How do you tell a friend that they shouldnt get married?? With out hurting their feelings.

I dont want to and I think I wont. It's his own mistake to make...

I guess id like to hear similar stories.

SO... the story.

Scott and Brian (gay couple.. which I personally have no issues with) want to get married (June 15) a year to date from when they met and started dating. Brian is still in highschool (graduating). I live in Canada and we can get married at 18 and same sex marriages are legal. Now all the things that bug me:

-Scott still wants to party nightly
-Brian doesnt want to...
-Brian calls him up and demands he spends time with him over friends
-Brian smacked me when I jokingly smacked Scotts butt at my drunk 19th bday (Brian wasnt drunk)... this is only an example of the jealousy.. which si weird because Scott and I are very platonic.
-They want to get married for fear that the law will change, and same sex marriage will be illegal (which Harper cant do without at least a year of work)
-Scott had a crush on Brians gay friend and never told brian
-They wont tell their parents because they know they will disagree.. along with all of us silent friends.
-and the bigg est BIGGEST thing.. same sex marriage is legal yes... but nothing has passed for divorce. so.. they cant divorce!!!

bah!

Serena

side note: This is a little bit of a vent.. i dont think they are marrying for the right reasons.. however.. if Scott will go through with it.. i will stand by him and support him. I just dont think its what marriage is about.

fallbride · #2 05-23-2006, 02:27 AM

Can't you talk to him and tell him to date longer. Tell him that he is still young, and maybe should not jump into something that big so quickley.

***I am just trying to give ideas here, so please don't think I feel that young people should not get married.****

ljeagle · #3 05-23-2006, 02:29 AM

Ok I think if a friend of mine would of told me not to get married I would of just lol at them and told them they didn't have to come. This is there choice and if they choose to do this then thats them. They both know what this is about and he is old enough to see it's going to hurt a lot of people. Leave it up to them and just be there 4 him.

uNF_Rena · #4 05-23-2006, 02:33 AM

yeah i probably wont say anything... i already spoke breifly with him.. but more of questions..
See if I said to him he shouldnt get married then he would throw a fit..
I know that if i fought with him... told him it wasnt going to work.. he would concentrate on staying together and getting married just to prove me wrong..

but would you ever get married knowing that you couldnt get divorced?
Theo and I wouldnt.. because it would just be silly. Nor would i get married without a prenup (i dont think they are getting one)... because if you love them, then decide all that when you do love each other..

oh and this is their first relationship... not just their first serious relationship.

maroki13 · #5 05-23-2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

but would you ever get married knowing that you couldnt get divorced?
Theo and I wouldnt.. because it would just be silly. Nor would i get married without a prenup (i dont think they are getting one)...

First, to address these questions above. I would get married if I knew I couldn't get divorced, just as I would get married without a pre-nup. I don't think either are "silly" things to do.

I see divorce as simply a piece of paper. Just as people can stay together and be totally committed without being married (without the legal benefits), people can also choose to go their seperate ways and end their relationship without divorce, even if there isn't a piece of paper that legally ends their relationship. Isn't that what happens when people 'seperate'?? Staying married would only tie them legally, through perhaps property and benefits. It doesn't maintain an emotionally attached relationship where there is none.

About the pre-nup. We aren't having one...I don't know a lot of people who do have them, asides from celebrities. And it sounds to me that, simply because YOU believe it is best to have a pre-nup in your situation, you are judging them for choosing not to have one. You said one of them is still in high school; maybe they have nothing they feel needs to be put into a pre-nup before they get married.

Quote:

because if you love them, then decide all that when you do love each other..

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Finally, I agree with LJ. I think if someone told me not to get married, I would tell them it is their choice to come (or not) to the wedding. If you really want to discuss it with your friend, but not seem like you are lecturing or telling him not to get married, maybe use a line of questioning more. So instead of you telling him he shouldn't get married, ask him questions about his relationship and maybe he will realize on his own that he isn't ready to get married.

uNF_Rena · #6 05-23-2006, 03:23 AM

Ok yeah some people would get married without being able to get divorced.. and yes i came off a little judemental.. and i didnt mean to. I Personally would never do it.. not because i dont love theo.. but with divorce it is just a peice of paper and so is getting married. however if you want to get married again.. you cant do that without a divorce.

The prenup thing to me is huge... mostly because thinking of how poor my brother would be if he didnt do the prenup thing.. wo! his soon to be ex wife is the most selfish person i have met. Also for me it isnt an offensive thing to ask for..
and what i meant by that comment is..
No one gets married thinking "man this is such a joke" .. ok some do.. but those 50% of married couples who get divorced.. dont know that then. They loved eachother.. married.. had problems.. and dont like each other and then probably divorced. So I think that you should make a prenup that way you divide it the way you think it should be.. while you love each other.. this leads to less selfish choices.. whereas people who are going through divorces arent always so nice.

I'd just like to say.. that people shouldnt marry for the wrong reasons.. and i feel these are. this is honestly how my conversation went when i first found out
Serena: "So your getting married, really soon.. are you sure about this?"
Scott: "Yeah with stephen harper as our Prime Minister, he's going to change the laws"

I dunno.

Serena

P.S. Sorry if I offended.

maroki13 · #7 05-23-2006, 03:29 AM

Quote:

P.S. Sorry if I offended.

You didn't offend me! I was just stating my opinion.

I don't think people should get married for the wrong reasons either, but I don't know what you can do to stop them.

Heather · #8 05-23-2006, 03:32 AM

I get what you mean now, and thanks for explaining a little more. I had the same questions as maroki as I was reading through. I don't think you offended anyone, just confused them a bit.

If I were wealthy enough to think I needed a prenup, I would probably do it. It would depend though, on what my fiance did for a living, how happy his is with his own career path, etc. I don't know. I don't think it's something I can answer honestly or thoroughly without being in that situation. Right now Mike and I do very well, and before his recent promotion (last week) he only made a couple grand more a year that I do. Now, we'll just say he'll be kicking in a little more into our shared savings/checking.

I agree with LJ with regard to your particular issue. If you've already made it clear you're a little concerned, and he doesn't pursue that with you, then I wouldn't bring it up again. Just be there as a friend like you said you would do.

swtdl11552 · #9 05-23-2006, 03:45 AM

My opinion is simple so I will be brief. I believe it is your responsibility as a good friend to be honest with your friend. Tell him your concerns, voice them rationally, and voice them ONLY ONCE. Tell him that you love him and you trust his judgement, these were just some concerns you had about a life changing event that he was planning.

Then, you support him.

lisa82 · #10 05-23-2006, 06:33 AM

This question is a little hard for me to answer. I can see why you don't think they should get married, they really don't sound ready for it, and the one guy does come off as a little controlling. As for the pre-nup and divorce, for ME, I don't believe in divorce, therefor a pre-nup is useless. But that's just me.

Emily · #11 05-23-2006, 10:15 AM

I agree with Lisa - Divorce is not an option for me!

As for a pre-nup isnt that just for mega-wealthy celebrities??????

DragonYoga · #12 05-23-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily

As for a pre-nup isnt that just for mega-wealthy celebrities??????

Not really. Anyone that has even something of value that can be taken away from them in a divorce basically should get a prenup (those who believe divorce is an option)... Examples: Shared checking/savings accounts - how much does each get? The house? The cars? Everyday things like that can add up to an considerable amount.

I plan to get a prenup mainly to make my mother happy, and I do have some shared land with her. Basically, my prenup would say that whatever was mine or his before marriage stays that way, and if we have anything shared, then each party gets a full half for fairness.

Marge129 · #13 05-23-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heather

I get what you mean now, and thanks for explaining a little more. I had the same questions as maroki as I was reading through. I don't think you offended anyone, just confused them a bit.

If I were wealthy enough to think I needed a prenup, I would probably do it. It would depend though, on what my fiance did for a living, how happy his is with his own career path, etc. I don't know. I don't think it's something I can answer honestly or thoroughly without being in that situation. Right now Mike and I do very well, and before his recent promotion (last week) he only made a couple grand more a year that I do. Now, we'll just say he'll be kicking in a little more into our shared savings/checking.

I agree with LJ with regard to your particular issue. If you've already made it clear you're a little concerned, and he doesn't pursue that with you, then I wouldn't bring it up again. Just be there as a friend like you said you would do.

I'm just gonna say "DITTO" to this.

OT: Speaking of pre-nups... did ya'll see that Paul McCarty DIDN'T get one with his latest marriage and now he's going through a divorce?!

Oh and... pre-nups aren't for me... divorces apparently are.

Complicated Woman · #14 05-23-2006, 02:58 PM

LOL Margie!

If Harper changes the laws, will existing same sex marriages be grandfathered in or annulled? I would imagine that it wouldn't much matter and their marriage wouldn't be acknowledged anyway.

For me, even if a good friend spoke to me frankly with an open mind, it wouldn't change the fact that I am getting married. No one can make that decision for Scott but Scott. Probably the best thing you can do is be there for him.

I also am getting married without a pre-nup and we just would not divorce. Not an option. FH and I really believe that marriages don't end because people stop "liking each other", but because people stop serving each other and putting the other first. Aaaaand we just would never consider a divorce.

Unless I started beating him or something.

Emily · #15 05-23-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complicated Woman

we just would not divorce. Not an option. FH and I really believe that marriages don't end because people stop "liking each other", but because people stop serving each other and putting the other first. Aaaaand we just would never consider a divorce.

Unless I started beating him or something.

I am totally with you on that one - Damon and I have made a conscious decision that we will work ANYTHING out and we are both prepared to do that no matter what!

No offence to the divorcees out there but personally I think that Divorce is just easy way out!

munchkin · #16 05-23-2006, 05:52 PM

Actually same-sex couples can get divorced in Canada, so I'm not sure where you're getting that they can't. The law still says that "man and woman" but in practice it is still legal for any couple, homosexual or heterosexual, to get divorced.

birdie · #17 05-23-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swtdl11552

My opinion is simple so I will be brief. I believe it is your responsibility as a good friend to be honest with your friend. Tell him your concerns, voice them rationally, and voice them ONLY ONCE. Tell him that you love him and you trust his judgement, these were just some concerns you had about a life changing event that he was planning.

Then, you support him.

I completely agree. It doesn't need to be said but: Marraige is a huge deal. It's a life-changing event. It is not just dating and it is not for people who just really like each other. It is for people who are fully committed to spending and sharing their lives with one another - for the rest of their lives.

Ask your friend why he wants to get married - other than the fact that the laws may be changed. What qualities does Brian have that Scott sees as something he doesn't want to live without?

Voice your opinion - you are his friend and have the responsibility to tell him what you, from the outside of their relationship, are seeing. But be prepared for him to get defensive and possibly angry with you.

I'm just ranting now... I don't know but good luck and keep us updated.

maroki13 · #18 05-23-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Actually same-sex couples can get divorced in Canada, so I'm not sure where you're getting that they can't. The law still says that "man and woman" but in practice it is still legal for any couple, homosexual or heterosexual, to get divorced.

Thanks for telling us that Munchkin, I didn't know that. It still doesn't change my opinion about divorce being a piece of paper, but it is interesting to know.

So....are there seperate laws in Canada allowing homosexuals to marry? Or are they allowed to under the same laws as heterosexuals, even if the language says "man and woman"? I'm just wondering because they can divorce under the law that uses "man and woman" language. Interesting.

munchkin · #19 05-23-2006, 06:48 PM

okay I looked it up, and the divorce law does apply to same-sex couples, as the definition of spouse is "either of two persons who are married to each other." Therefore, your friends can get divorced so that argument has no bearing on whether or not they can and should get married.

Maroki, there is no seperate law allowing homosexuals to marry, as the law now makes no distinction as to what a "spouse" is. The marriage and divorce laws apply to both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

uNF_Rena · #20 05-23-2006, 07:42 PM

then that was recent... and that makes me feel a whoooole lot better.

About the prenup thing.. to me it makes sense to get one because i grew up being told to get one.. why?
My mom has been married twice. The reason i bring this up is because for my moms first marriage (which ended 28 years ago and didnt last too long in the first place) she was making probably about 10-15,000 and never thought she would ever make more them 20. either way her now ex husband bought things on credit to pay long term.. cheated on my mom like a mad hatter, and left her with my eldest brother (who was 2) to take care of... while going to school part time she was working 2 full time jobs.. I have no idea how she managed that.. but he disappeared.. and she had to pay his debt... and he got everything. Example my mom had to pay for the brand new truck.. which he had when he disappeared. So my mom always taught me that before anything else i should be able to support myself and to keep an eye on my future. Oh.. and because of him.. my mom is STILL (28 years later) in debt by about million bucks..
Thats why to me it seemed silly.. i was taught differently

munchkin · #21 05-23-2006, 08:16 PM

I'm glad it makes you feel better. It apparently went into effect when marriage was legalized all over Canada, so it's only about a year old now.

PlanetClaire · #22 05-23-2006, 10:59 PM

I think my response is more from the side of your friend or if I was the recipient of a friend's advice/opinion. So please don't be offended.

Unless he asks you outright for your opinion, it doesn't matter what you think about it. It's his relationship, his life, he can do what he wants.If it's a mistake, then he'll learn from it. I don't think it serves any purpose whatsoever to express a negative sentiment about someone's partner unless they have put your friend in jeopardy of some sort ( abusive, financially unstable etc...)

Even if you approach it nicely, I think it could alienate you.

My opinion. And like a$$holes, we all have one!!

Marge129 · #23 05-23-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanetClaire

My opinion. And like a$$holes, we all have one!!

whiddle · #24 05-23-2006, 11:16 PM

I wouldn't say anything.

I don't think that everyone needs a pre-nup. If they are in high school, what can they possibly own????

munchkin · #25 05-24-2006, 01:38 AM

I agree with you Whiddle. A prenup has never even occured to me, and certainly wouldn't if I was 18 years old and just graduating from high school! I owned nothing in high school, so half of nothing is still nothing, and we would be equal.