Children at Weddings

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This is a thread that was started in our old BlissWeddings.com forums on 08/20/2001.

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posted by Steven_g

Hello, all...

On behalf of the forum moderator, Feb-Bride, and myself, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Receptions Forum!

To get this forum started, I wanted to restart a topic that was very active in the old Bliss! forums. That topic is: Children at Weddings. Here is what our former resident etiquette expert, wedding consultant Sasha Souza, had to say about the topic:

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"As somebody who attends more weddings each year than any other poster in this forum and a mother of two small children (9 & 2) and as a professional person, I will tell you this...If the event is such that the children will be provided for (ie: reliable nanny service) and the bride wants a "family" atmosphere at her wedding, then children should be invited...however...those children must be provided for. I cannot tell you how often I am fishing children out of the grapevines and bushes and other rooms where they do not belong. Parents often let little Johnny run amuck -- believing he is playing with other children when he's really getting into things that are potentially dangerous. For that reason, I don't believe that most weddings are for kids.

Most parents look at me like i have two heads when I ask them to make sure that their children are being cared for because they just went swimming in the pond with the geese at the winery. Like I'm imposing on their goodtime.

This is hear-say, from a photographer at the event, but what I understand is that recently, there was an incident in my area where a 4 year old boy accompanied his mother to a wedding...she also was a friend of the family and baked the wedding cake. The property had a nice pond, lots of space and geese. While she was setting up the wedding cake, the little boy was left unattended. He found the geese interesting and 20 minutes later was found face down in the pond. Brain dead. Not the most pleasant way to start your new married life with your friend's child dead.

This is an extreme case and certainly there are children who are well behaved. I believe that the choice is COMPLETELY up to the bride and groom. If they want to have an upscale party and not have children running about on the dance floor, that is THEIR choice. As a coordinator, I
don't find it cute or endearing when the children take part in adult activities, like the bouquet and garter tosses. I think that those kids will have lots of years of attending weddings later on and that they should go to adults in the crowd who really do have a chance of being married next.

As a parent, I find nothing wrong with receiving an invitation to a wedding and not taking my children. I actually welcome the break. I don't feel like they are attached to my hip and
inviting me means inviting them. That would go for anything I were invited to go to -- including weddings.

Professionally, and finally, my opinion is that the guestlist is up to the host. They can design their wedding as they like. If you don't like that the children aren't invited, then don't go.

Best wishes,

Sasha
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posted by julie

OK, it's too late for me! We already indicated "and family" on the invites. I wish I had read this before! We now have about 20 children coming (under the age of 10) & I recently realized the country club has a pool. Yikes! I spoke to my fiance's mother (most of the kids are from his side), who says "not to worry, these are good parents who will look after their children." Right!!! My question is, even if I hire a sitter, how can I be guaranteed that the kids will stay in the assigned room? I'm sure they'll run out! Maybe I should just have someone to "monitor" the kids & make sure they're not near the pool or getting hurt?? Help!

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posted by feb-bride

You're right Julie - you can't guarantee the kids will stay in the room. I wouldn't even hire someone to watch the other kids. The reason why I say this is if something happens to one of those kids, you could be held liable because you were the one who provided the caregiver for the kids. I know - it sucks that you even have to think about this, but in this sue-happy society, one can never be too careful.

What I suggest is that you call the guests who are bringing children to notify them that there will be a pool at the reception. Tell them that you're happy that they can attend, but there will be no supervision provided (they will have to watch their own kids around the pool). This way, they can decide whether or not to bring the kids (when they find out that there will be no pool supervision, some of the guests may re-think bringing their kids).

Good luck!

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posted by lucyd

I'm not sure if it is by state, but where I live if you pay someone for a service, they become liable. Otherwise they are not. So if the parents pay you, you are liable. If you pay a sitter, the sitter becomes liable. As long as their is no money involve, the liability is voided. You get what you pay for, I guess. In anycase, one sitter for 20 kids?
Besides, in addition to possible liability issues, many parents may not want to leave their children in the care of a stranger. I definitely think you should get the word about about the pool, though. I just wouldn't count on it as a deterrent for parents bringing the kids along.

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posted by julie

Very helpful advice! I plan on personally calling all the parents this week & have decided against a sitter. The liability issue is a very good point. My fiance told me he thinks the pool is drained after Labor Day anyway, so hopefully that is true. I think calling parents is a good idea even if there wasn't a pool. Thanks a bunch!

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posted by feb-bride

You may be *technically* correct, lucy, but how would you feel as the bride if one of the kids got hurt while being watched by the sitter that YOU hired? If it were just a matter of someone watching some kids in another room, it would be one thing, but since there's a pool at this reception site, there's a whole different issue at hand. What if one of the kids escaped the notice of the sitter and drowned? Even if the sitter is *technically* liable, I'd feel like absolute crap for the rest of my life because I was the one who provided the sitter.

Just my opinion, though!

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posted by lucyd

I was just responding to the liability issue, not all the other ramifications of such an accident.

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posted by feb-bride

Oh, I'm aware of that, lucy; I just wanted to say that I look beyond *technical* liability and look at it more as a moral liability. I don't want my wedding day becoming the anniversary of a child's death, especially if that child was under the supervision of someone I hired.

I am hiring someone to be in charge of my kids during the reception, but they're MY kids. Also, our reception is indoors and there is no pool on the premises. My kids will even be in the same room as the rest of us; they'll just be under the care of a sitter so that none of my family members are forced to watch them (obviously, my fiance' and I will not be watching them - we'll be too busy!).

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posted by married

Where do I begin? Am I correct in understanding that the accident happened before the wedding ceremony while the friend was providing a professional service? I thought this was about inviting families (with children) to weddings.
I am understanding of people who are concerned about children of friends (kids that the couple doesn't know) and I'd have to wonder why someone would invite strangers to their wedding. I think it's rather rude and inconsiderate of a couple to request that family (especially if they are coming from out-of-town) not to bring their kids to the wedding/ reception. If a couple is not interested in celebrating their wedding with family, how can they appropriately ask family not to bring their kids? Expressing concerns of safety is entirely appropriate...safety is always a concern no matter what time or event. I say that excluding ANY family changes the tone of the celebration. Save yourself the trouble...elope and have a party with your friends. Weddings are the celebration of a new family beginning for the couple and their two families. I am not a parent yet and I only have afew friends who are and I still believe this "Adults Only" thing is very sad and unsettling...especially when I think of all the things people ARE willing to do around kids. What a great positive family experience this could be for them (more particularly after 6 or so).

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posted by feb-bride

The point of the first post on this thread (it was posted by Sasha Sousa, the moderator on the Wediquette page) is that unfortunately, there are many wedding receptions where the parents get so into having a good time that they actually "forget" to watch their kids. The child who drowned was supposed to be under the care of his own mother, but she was too busy setting up a cake to watch him around water.

No one is saying that kids should not be invited to weddings, although this IS the bride's and groom's decision to make and the guests need to respect the bride/groom's wishes. The point is that if kids are invited and the parents bring them, those parents need to make sure they're actually supervising their kids.

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posted by married

Feb-Bride, Take another look at Ms. Souza's fifth line regarding when kids "should" be invited to weddings. I hope this philosophy about kids at weddings is one regarding people's faith in other people's parenting priorities/ skills than it is about the role of children in family events (eg. weddings); however, the raising of either as a problem paints a poor picture of families and family values today. The day is not about perfection--if you aim at it, you've lost your day---it's about people and celebration. By the way, do I need to point out that there are plenty of adults who behave poorly?

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posted by feb-bride

Well, married, I have three kids myself and I would definitely NOT be offended if I received an invitation to an "adults-only" wedding. I do not believe that kids should automatically be invited to every single event that their parents attend.

That being said, my circle of family and friends do include kids in wedding receptions. I will be having kids at mine and that's totally normal to me. However, not everyone grows up that way. There are some people who NEVER attended weddings as kids, so for them, it's weird to HAVE kids at weddings.

I think it's all about personal beliefs. Just because you and I think it's totally appropriate to have kids at our weddings doesn't mean everyone else thinks this way. In this society, it's okay for people to have differing opinions about this and other issues.

But, as parents (I know you're not a parent yet), we shouldn't get outraged when we're invited to events where our kids aren't welcome. If you don't like it, don't go! No one's forcing parents to attend adult-only functions. If the concept of an adult-only affair is totally alien to you, then invite kids to all functions. But, don't come down harshly on people who feel that there are events where kids just don't belong.

I have to admit that I have been to wedding receptions where some parents forget that they should be watching their kids. My cousin got married in July and my sister attended with her three kids. My sister was so caught up in having a good time that she wasn't watching her 5-year-old son very well. He almost knocked down the photographer because he was running around the dance floor; worse, he almost knocked down the cake table. All this and my sister was standing about 5 feet away.

It seems like the point Sasha was trying to make is that if the bride/groom want a "family atmosphere," then invite kids. If, however, the bride/groom are wanting a more elegant affair, then it's just fine to not invite kids. As much as I love my kids, I would not want to bring them to a formal, elegant affair, not because I don't love them, but because they'd be BORED out of their minds. If you're having a buffet dinner and a more casual atmosphere, kids should be fine; if the event is more structured (sit-down dinner, etc.), kids do not usually have much fun.

And, as a parent, if you want to bring your kids to the wedding, then WATCH THEM at all times. Do not let them run around and get into things.

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posted by married

It's interesting that your family and chosen circle of friends value the role of kids in such events.

It's all about values and respect but let's not confuse respect with agreement or understanding. When we respect people's wishes, conflicting values would prevent agreement or understanding. I think it's perfectly acceptable that this subject is emotionally charged. A considerate couple who wants an adults only wedding/ reception would respect THAT and do what they could to find ways of easing tensions.

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posted by feb-bride

I'm not sure what you mean by this passage. When you say "A considerate couple who wants an adults only wedding/reception would respect THAT and do what they could to find ways of easing tensions," what do you mean? I have reread this a few times and still don't know the point you're trying to make. Please explain so I can understand.

You're right - this IS an emotionally-charged issue. People usually have very strong opinions about this. What I was trying to say is that while I will be inviting kids to my wedding, I would respect the wishes of someone if they invited me to a wedding WITHOUT my kids and I'd either get a sitter for the evening or would just not attend. I really don't believe that my kids HAVE to be invited to everything I'm invited to, but like I said, I do invite kids to my events.

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posted by FatherOfGroom

I believe that an exaggerated example was used to justify not inviting children to a Wedding Reception. The case of hired help or someone heavily involved in the wedding bringing their children is inappropriate. The lady who baked the cake and let her child drown was simply irresponsible.

I can agree with friends and/or business acquaintances not being allowed to bring children. But, if the children are related to the bride or groom they should be invited as they are family. Especially if the family has to travel out of town for the wedding. If a friend has to travel from out of town for the wedding the bride & groom should provide baby-sitting or allow the child to come to the Reception. If a parent of a cousin, niece or nephew is in the wedding party another member of the family should watch them.
Responsible parents will supervise their children and/or leave the reception if the baby or child becomes disruptive. (The key word is RESPONSIBLE!)

For the bride or groom not to invite all of their family including children is an insult to their family. They are saying Family doesn't matter. If they feel that their nieces and nephews might be disruptive, they should inform the parents of that concern and ask them to be sure the children are on their best behavior. Even asking in advance, if the children become cranky or disruptive, that they leave the reception.

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posted by feb-bride

fatherofgroom - I agree with you. All I say is that as parents, we have to respect the wishes of people who invite us to weddings. If we're invited without our kids, we have two choices - either attend and hire a sitter or don't attend and stay home with our kids. As a guest, it's not my place to tell the bride/groom that I think they need to invite my kids because they're family. Unless you're paying for the event, you are merely a guest and have no say-so over who is and is not invited to the wedding.

Also the quote in the first post is by a professional wedding consultant with LOTS of experience with wedding receptions. She's just speaking from experience when she says how many times she's had to "fish" kids out of places where they don't belong. It is NOT the wedding coordinator's responsibility to babysit the kids because the parents are having too much fun to watch their own kids. Let's face it - not all parents are responsible for their kids; these parents should not bring their kids if they do not plan on watching them at all times.

I am inviting kids, so I agree that kids should be invited. However, if I'm a mere guest at another wedding and my kids are not invited, I would not complain or try to "guilt" the bride/groom into inviting my kids just because they're related to the bride/groom.

There is a lot of history on this topic from the "old" forum. The first time this topic came up, it was posted by a woman who was invited to a wedding (her husband was the groom's brother) and her kids weren't invited. She (the woman with the kids) had already planned to bring the kids and tie in a Disneyworld vacation while in town for the wedding. She just assumed that kids would be invited (she never asked), so when they got the invitation and the kids were not invited, the woman threw an absolute FIT because she'd already told her young son that he'd be going to Disneyworld. She did her best to turn her mother-in-law against the bride. She was such a brat about it that the bride finally caved very close to the wedding date and allowed the children to attend (even though no other kids were invited or in attendance).

The issue of kids at weddings is a very charged issue. I was raised in a family where kids were invited to weddings without exception, and kids will definitely be invited to my wedding; however, not everyone has been raised in that manner. As such, people who wish to have "adult-only" receptions should be respected for their wishes and should not be made to feel like horrible people because they'd like their wedding day to be child-free.

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posted by scotty

It's funny how these issues keep getting rehashed, but with very good points!

I just wanted to add to the latest discussion with a point feb-bride made much earlier. And that was regarding the reality of how awful it would be to think back on your wedding day & have memories of a child who was at your wedding and got seriously hurt. I don't think the original example was exaggerated at all. It would be silly to not take that seriously.

We're talking taking precautions here. That should be the most important thing, and everyone's wedding site has a different degree/amount of risks that need to be considered when children are involved. I work with preschool children & often when a child gets hurt it's b/c the caregivers (including parents) were distracted by adult conversation, which is exactly what we're talking about happpening at a social event like a wedding! It doesn't matter how *responsible* a parent is. The fact is bad things happen to all parents & as a bride I have taken (hopefully) the appropriate precautions to inform parents of dangers and/or limit the # of kids invited. (only family are bring children to our wedding)

I think the decision to not invite kids is usually one made by a couple out of "responsibility," and not rudeness. It truly is their choice.

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posted by married

Well, can we all agree now that it's "their" choice...the couple or whoever is paying for the wedding? I am interested in addressing the reasoning behind such a choice. Deciding for another parent whether children go to a wedding b/c you don't think they'll take care of their child sounds more presumptuous than responsible. Accidents happen even without the attendance of children. All accidents are tragic. Feb-bride, "THAT" refers to this emotionally charged issue. If the couple and/ or parents paying are considerate, they will consider that this is a controversial issue and do what they can to minimize the tension. I think it's inconsiderate of a couple to invite close family to a wedding that is a ways away and expect that the kids will attend the wedding but not the reception and not consider the issue of child care for a family who has no friends or family in that city. Bottom line is there are lots of different situations for this issue and the least that an invitee could expect is consideration. If you really want people to celebrate, you send out save dates and invites in a timely manner so they can plan. If you want your family members to attend without their kids, you help them with options when it's out of town.

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posted by feb-bride

I wasn't talking about out-of-town weddings in particular. I was also talking about local weddings where the guests do NOT have to travel more than a few minutes.

The case I mentioned about the woman whose husband was in the out-of-state wedding of his brother: The bride and groom offered to provide a sitter for the kids, but the woman refused because she'd NEVER left her kids with a sitter, even for an hour. So, the bride/groom did try to accommodate her; she was the ONLY guest who refused to use the sitter.

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posted by marriedx2

i am responding to this current discussion on children at weddings. i have been married twice at my second wedding my children were an integral part of the wedding. i mean by this that they were involved in the ceremony i felt that to include them was basic since this was to be part of their new family maybe this is the core issue those of us with children understand and some without dont. my sister and father have both written to this forum the basic problem is this: my brother is getting married in january whenever the wedding was discussed before and i did mention bringing my children ages 8 and 10 he never said a word about adults only. now it is being dropped in my lap. i fully understand that it is up to the bride and groom and can respect that however they have made no plans or arrangements for the children at all. i dont know how many children are involved i know there are none on the brides immediate side of the family and there is my 8&10 yr old on the grooms. i will be traveling from fla for this event which is in tx how can i not be concerned for my kids especially since a definite decision has been made of adults only but no arrangements made for the kids. in my opinnion if you know people are coming from out of town with kids and you dont want the kids there arrangements should be made for them right up there with the flowers and dinner etc. my point being dont make the arrangements an afterthought because childcars arrangements made in haste could be less cautious and i wont leave my kids with a last minute sitter found god knows where. anyway i agree that at weddings children dont always need to go. i dont bring my kids to friends weddings; but his is family it is their uncle who is getting married one they unfortunately do not get to see often but when they do dont stop talking about him. they love and admire him and i thimk it is sad that they are not welcome to share his day

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posted by FatherOfGroom

In response to not inviting children because of the liability for the safety of children at a wedding reception and the marring of the bride's day with an accident or death:

What about the adult who slips and falls, breaking their leg?
How does the bride determine which adult is most likely to do that and not invite them?

What about grandpa suddenly having a heart attack and dying on the dance floor?
Do we not invite grandparents?

What about the Best Man whom has too much to drink at the reception and crashes his car on the way home?
Do we do not invite Best Men to the reception?

What about the bridesmaid who gets drunk, gets carried away with the desire for romance with someone she meets at the reception and finds herself pregnant?
Do we not invite bridesmaids?
Does the bride not invite men, to protect her bridesmaids?

These situations can and do occur. Who is responsible?
How can the Bride & Groom prevent them from happening and marring their day?
Do they just not get married and not bother with a reception?

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posted by feb-bride

It's unfortunate that your kids aren't included, but I don't think it's the bride's and groom's OBLIGATION to provide for out-of-town kids. I think it's a nice idea, but it's not required. I do think it was wrong of the groom not to mention that this would be an adults-only affair because he knew you were coming from out-of-town for this wedding. If you'd known from the get-go, you could have at least been prepared in advance.

If I were invited to an out-of-state wedding and my kids weren't invited (yes, I have kids, so I'm not just guessing what I'd do if I had them), I would either leave them with my mother or another trusted family member who was not invited to the wedding or I would simply not go to the wedding. I would NOT expect the bride and groom to make arrangements for my children, although it would be a nice gesture.

As far as the examples given by fatherofgroom, we obviously cannot control or anticipate the actions of all our guests. But, it's a given that kids in general (not your family's kids specifically) are more unpredictable than adults. If a bride/groom are having a reception at a country club with an ungated pool, it's not unusual to be concerned about inviting kids to the reception. It's more likely for a kid to get injured than an adult because they cannot be held accountable for their own actions because they're KIDS. Those examples you sited with adults are different because adults ARE responsible for their own actions.

I realize the point you're trying to make is that ANYONE can get hurt at a reception. But I think it's a safe assumption that it's more likely to happen to a kid. Also, some brides/grooms want a wedding ceremony/reception without screaming kids. I think that the chance of kids crying/screaming at a wedding are much greater than an adult displaying this behavior.

You're right about the alcohol thing (best man crashing his car). That's why we're cutting off all alcohol at least 2 hours before the end of the reception. I think any bride/groom who serve alcohol right up to the end of the reception are asking for a tragedy to happen.

As far as the bridesmaids, thankfully all of mine are married or in serious relationships and their husbands/SO's will be there!

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posted by FatherOfGroom

Goodness Gracious Feb-bride!
You miss the point that these children are family and the rest of the family (Including the Grandmother.) is invited to the Wedding & Reception.

Since the event is out of town and will involve 3 to 5 days including travel, it would be an imposition on a neighbor or friend to watch them for that length of time.

As I said earlier, if disruptive behavior of the children is the concern, then it is fair that the Bride & Groom notify the parents, in advance, that they will be expected to leave the reception with the children if it occurs.

I don't believe that is more likely for children of responsible parents to get into trouble. Please note, I said the parents are responsible and the Bride & Groom have the right to tell them to be so. Thus I agree with the idea informing the parents that there is a pool. However, any Country Club that hosts such a function without concern for the safety for ALL guests including adults and children is looking for a lawsuit. If an adult were to slip and fall into the pool, hurting themselves, what would you like to bet that any court in this country would rule that the Country Club was responsible? Not the adult!

I have not once mentioned acceptance of screaming kids. I agree that the chance of young children crying/screaming at a wedding is a possibility and the parent should remove them immediately. My grandchildren however, are not at that age. The youngest is 9 and able to sit in church quietly and behave. He is also able to go out to dinner at a nice (Upscale!) restaurant and conduct himself as well as any adult.

You might cut off alcohol, but what's to say that someone doesn't find their own?

It is nice that your bridesmaids are married or in serious relationships. Can you guarantee that some knight in shinning armor doesn't come in and ring their chimes? Even if she doesn't get pregnant, your wedding could be the beginning of the end for a marriage or relationship. It can and has happened! Want to take that chance?

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posted by marriedx2

i dont see how it cannot be up to the bride and groom to provide care for children when they know they have family coming from out of town who have children. there is no trusted family member available; they will all be at the wedding and recption except for of course my children. i have already resigned myself to missing my baby brothers wedding because i will not know anybody in town so how can i provide childcare where i have never been before. my concern is that since i plan on not attending i just hope that my brother understands and does not resent my decision. but i do firmly believe if you invite your FAMILY to your out of town wedding and you know they have kids then along with your decision for the adult only reception comes the responsibility of providing arrangements for the younger members of YOUR FAMILY. after all what are weddings really about FAMILY or social productions i always thought it was about family but in this case i may be wrong

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posted by marriedx2

as scotty pointed out only family are bringing children to her wedding which is my point exactly my children are his (groom's) nephews which is his family i would never bring my kids to a friend's wedding unless they were specifically invited. this however is different because the children in question are family not just a friend's kids.

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posted by scotty

marriedx2, I really feel for your situation. Have you talked to your brother about this? I think you should. Maybe he'll reconsider if you're up-front about this with him.

However, I disagree with the statement that it is up to the bride & groom to make arrangements for kids. (along with flowers, etc.) That's not right for obvious reasons. Parents need to be the ones to find their own sitter, & in the case of an out-of-town wedding, I would guess a sitter in your own home town. I didn't say I agreed with this, as you know children of family are attending my wedding. But, if you really want to attend his wedding & he really insists on an adults-only reception, then that seems like the only option. (aside from not attending)

This idea of adults-only is not uncommon & I won't argue whether it's right or not. But, it is the couples decision & I don't think they're making the statement that kids (family) are not important. Some events are appropriate for only adults & all wedding are not the same! (i.e.,parties -- you wouldn't take you child to a X-mas party that was adults-only, right?) And if you really want to know why they've chosen to have an adults-only reception, just ask them!!! The bottom line for me is, that it is a decision of the bride & groom & I don't think it merits hurtful feelings. (in other words, don't take it personally!) It's just the *style* of wedding they want, whether we agree with it or not.

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posted by marriedx2

well in response to talking to him about it unfortunately not on the phone i have sent him some emails which were inspired by my conversations here i have spent so much time discussing the issue in this forum i felt it was time to make my feeliongs known to the people who are really involved. this is where it gets difficult he is in germany in the field for army training and unreachable at will so i mustered up the courage and sent an email to the bride and grooms joint email address for wedding questions today. i politely asked for some suggestions since i know no one there and do not know the town and i also stated that i was disappointed that they were not to be included .....till i here back we'll see.........

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posted by booky61

Hello All...
First off I can't believe this thread is going! I have been coming to this website for a year now and I think this thread has been going almost that long...(I think)
Anyway, this will always be a touchy subject with people...should I - shouldn't I - have kids at my wedding. I've seen it both ways. Kids can add a little something to a reception and they're cute as can be watching them dance. But they also are very unpredictable...whiney, cranky or just plain mischievious (sp?)... At my brother's wedding we found one of my 4 year old nephews playing in a bathroom sink with water all over the place. He was taking it apart...it was at a VFW club. At a recent wedding the bride and groom's own son threw a fit during the ceremony and hung on them all through the reception...even with the help of grandma and grandpa...I myself am rethinking having my one nephew at my wedding. He is not only my nephew but he's also my godson and the apple of my eyes..BUT - he's a pistol! When he wants something he screams! Yes, spoiled rotten, but what can you do. I also would love to have him there but I don't know yet. Hopefully by the time my wedding rolls around he'll be over that screaming phase. As for the bride and groom having to provide sitter service...I'm confused by some of your comments on that...no offense - I really am confused....do you call where ever you are going when on vacation and making them find a babysitter for you? Again I'm not being nasty or sarcastic...to me it's the same thing for the bride and groom...they've invited you to an ADULT function..granted they'd love to see your children but just not at that particular time..maybe before at a brunch or the next day at a cookout.....Not in a setting they are trying to achieve. I'm sure your children are good as gold! Most are if you ask me......I say just be a good sport...work with them on finding some way to have a sitter (since they probably live there maybe they can find some professional nanny service or something for a while) for you.... I'm sure it will all work out in the end... Enjoy.......Booky

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posted by marriedx2

i know this has been going back and forth for a while but i dont understand how it could not be up to the bride and groom they say they want the children at the wediing so they dont want me to leave them at home which is an impossibility anyway since we will all be at the wedding. so how can we be expected to come in the night before the wedding and line up reliable care. i know for those of you who have kids you would not turn them over to anyone especially in a new city or new to you city that you hastily found that day. we all agree it is up to the bride and groom to make the decision not to have kids at the reception. i dont think it is too much to ask that they arrange for their families children to be well cared for in a strange city. i am not saying they should be responsible for all children but in their immediate family i think this should apply. you want me to bring my children a couple hundred miles to be at your wedding but hey they arent invited to the reception and by the way you need to figure out who can watch them for yourself even though we know you dont know a soul here except for the bride and groom. i would really rather not go which i can accept i just hope the bride and groom can accept it with out any hard feelings. i will not be attending not out of spite but out of neccesity

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posted by married

Wow, so if I have a party or any event in which I invite guests, I don't have obligations to anyone? This is great!! Bring your own everything and who cares if you get along!! You're all invited to dote on me...and if I have a chance to talk to you, I will...otherwise I'll be in touch sometime after!

Why have an event if you don't know how to be a good host? Obligations=Responsibilities

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posted by feb-bride

I think I missed something in all of this. Married, marriedx2, fatherofgroom - I had NO idea that these kids were invited to the wedding but not the reception. I got the impression that these kids weren't invited to either of the two. This changes my opinion.

If the kids are invited to the wedding, then they should be invited to the reception, too. When I said that you should respect the bride/groom's wishes to have an adult-only event, I incorrectly assumed that your kids weren't invited to the ceremony, either.

If I wanted an adults-only reception (which I do NOT; I'm inviting about 30 kids - all of the kids in my family), I would not invite the kids to the ceremony, either. That does not make sense.

So, I guess we don't disagree as much as I thought we did!

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posted by marriedx2

its not really having people agree with us but i did figure you were missing part of the picture. really this has helped me vent alot of frustrations and i appreciate the oppurtunity. i actually feel that i can accept missing the wedding its unfortunate but what do ya do anyway basically they have made their decision and still no response from bride or groom to my email to discuss my feelings with them we'll see how that goes soon i hope. like i said i can accept my not going i just hope that my brother can. i just feel my kids are old enough to feel left out and i would rather avoid making them feel that way if possible but thanks for your support febbride and input from everyone else. like i said before this has been a great outlet for me and has helped me out alot THANKS........

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posted by scotty

Oops! I missed that part, too. You don't ever invite anybody (children or not) to the wedding, but not the reception! That is rude. I'm pretty sure Sasha has addressed this issue before. (I remember reading another post about it) I've heard of people being invited only to the reception, but not the wedding (i.e., a family-only wedding), but never the other way around. Obviously, the bride & groom have committed a faux pas here & are not aware of it. But, even if kids were not invited to either (wedding or reception), which is what it probably should have been, I still believe it is up to parents to find arrangements for their own kids.

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posted by lucyd

I do think it is strange that they aren't invited if they are really that close to your brother. I think people often forget that children are people too, and they do get hurt if they find out they aren't invited by someone they care deeply for. In any case, it was rude to invite them to the ceremony and not reception, unless, of course, there is a stron "adults only" theme at the reception. I've been to a couple no-kids receptions that I simply wouldn't bring a child to due to the large amount of alcohol and drug use there. (I'm not assuming that is your brother's reason.)

I'm sure if you explain your situation you and your brother can work this out (if you can get a hold of him.) Not having children of his own, he just might not "get" your situation.

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posted by wynelle

I can hear points from everyone... but... first, not everyone feels comfortable inviting children to formal events, family member or not. But again (big but) if the childrens' names were on the invitations along with the parents ( or it had the parents *& family*)... but did the invitations include the children in the first place, regardless of whether or not the groom discussed it?

Second, I personally don't feel the wedding couple has an obligation to provide child care, although it would be nice. But most hotels have do lists of bonded baby sitter services. And we aren't talking an eternity, we're talking a couple of hours.

Third.. the children feel *left out*... well, maybe, but when I was a child, I certainly didn't expect to be included in every adult event my parents attended; as a young parent, I would never have been offended if my child wasn't included. Part of the problems may be that children expect to be included in everything their parents do.

In any event, is it really worth disrupting a family relationship? If no other children are included, could they not feel these children might get bored? And a wedding and reception lasts a lot longer than dinner.

Let the bride and groom have a little peace on this issue. It is their choice for whatever reason.

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posted by marriedx2

two responses in order here scotty how can i find childcare where i dont live and never have been if they want my children at their wedding they should plan or suggest some arrangements for them. wynelle alot can happen in a couple of hours i will not be in town enough time in advance to arrange for care that i can properly look into. and last minute care is not acceptable. it takes only a matter of minutes for a child to get hurt and turning your child over to a stranger for a couple of hours... well need i say more. this is by no means far fetched either there have been plenty of instances of children abused by caregivers that the parents have researched and done background checks on so no i dont mean to tear apart a family but in my opinion my brother's wedding isnt worth my kids safety. i also have special concerns for one of my children who has asthma so that also weighs on my decision not to pick a babysitter off a list of bonded sitters. i dont know about any other parents out there but no bonding or insurance would replace a child or his childhood taken by a stranger or in some cases friends of family. in any case this is not the point basic point is no i dont expect that my children should come along for every adult function but this is afamily function their uncle is getting married not just some friend of their mom's. a wedding; which to my knowledge was about families two families coming together to celebrate the forming of a new family. my brother has stated that he and i quote "ofcourse wants the children at the wedding... just not at the reception" no i dont expect that every bride and groom are responsible for child care but in this situation i think it applies. i feel that when you invite your family and their children included to a wedding and your family flies out hundreds of miles for the wedding that some arrangements or suggestions for care should be made. if you invite friends that is a different story they may have family at home who can watch the kids. but whent the whole families going options are slim. back to the children feeling left out i reiterate i dont feel they should come to every adult function but it goes back to personal views are weddings events or family gatherings to celebrate and welcome new additions to the family ..........

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posted by feb-bride

Unfortunately for your family, marriedx2, not every bride/groom feels that weddings are about joining two families; a lot of brides/grooms feel that a wedding is about joining the two of them together without regard to the family situation.

I have three kids and I would NEVER merely choose some sitter of a list at a hotel and hand my kids over to them. I've watched too many 20/20 specials where the baby sitters beat the kids with wooden spoons, etc., and those are sitters the parents actually KNOW; I can't imagine turning my kids over to someone I've never met prior to that evening.

I had BRIEFLY toyed with the idea of an adult-only wedding and reception. My kids are in my wedding, and we were going to have a sitter (someone we know) pick up the kids after the ceremony so we could have a kid-free reception. The more I thought about it, though, the more I realized that for our wedding, it was not a great idea. I have several people I'm inviting (family and very close friends) who have kids. Well, I'm also inviting the only people these guests would even consider using as a baby sitter. So, by not inviting kids, I would virtually guarantee that some, if not all, of the guests with kids would not be able to attend. I also checked into a sitter who would watch all the kids in another room at the reception site, but it was WAY too expensive (not to mention that you can't guarantee the kids will even stay in that room). So, I decided to invite kids because it was more important that I be surrounded by my family and friends than it was for me to have a "kid-free" reception.

Now, in my case, I weighed my wants versus the guests' needs and chose my guests' needs over what I wanted. I don't think that brides/grooms HAVE to do this, though. It was just the way my mom raised me, I guess! I can honestly say that if I didn't have kids of my own, though, I would have probably given no thought to the needs of my guests with kids and would have had an adult-only function.

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posted by marriedx2

feb-bride i agree with you there is a big difference in decision making with regards to children when you do or dont have kids. this is why i probably wont attend which is ok dont get me wrong i'll miss being there but kids first at least my own. any way i dont think it is fair to wynelle to say i would be disrupting a family relationship by not going i am simply respecting their wishes and working within my capabilities besides lets flip this around is having two less nephews not be at the reception worth disrupting the relationship with your sister.

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posted by lucyd

Third.. the children feel *left out*... well, maybe, but when I was a child, I certainly didn't expect to be included in every adult event my parents attended; as a young parent, I would never have been offended if my child wasn't included. Part of the problems may be that children expect to be included in everything their parents do.

It is entirely one thing to not be invited to a business dinner or some other "adult" function as a child. I don't think most children do feel left out of these things. But I do think they would be hurt if a close family member doesn't want them at their wedding. I definitely think that couples should have a choice of whether to invite children or not. I just wanted to point out that children are people too. Not just "children" - those creatures that are unpredictable and apt to wandering off etc.

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posted by marriedx2

my point exactly lucyd i would like to say on a darker note however that the events yesterday (9/11/01) should reinforce the importance of family and being together. i am not saying this in regards to this reception that is a trivial point in the magnitude of the aftermath of yesterday's events. i would just like every one to realize what occurred to me yesterday i am lucky i will go home to my family some never will again. so i take from that .... regardless of whatever decision the bride and groom make or i make it really is a trivial problem compared to the problem of others. my husband is a firefighter/paramedic and i am a paramedic we both know our jobs are dangerous and reality hit us hard yesterday. so whatever happens with the reception happens in the long run i still have my family; brother and soon to be new wife included; and i count my blessings for that.

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posted by feb-bride

No kidding, marriedx2. It's crazy how many "trivial" things consume our lives. It takes an enormous tragedy to make us realize what's "really" important in life.

There is another thread on this web site about level of dress at a wedding, and how I should talk to my uncle because he wants to wear jeans to my wedding (well, I assume he'll wear jeans, since he has to the other family weddings). Well, you know what? I don't care if he wears a freaking BATHING SUIT at this point; he's alive, and that's all that matters!

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posted by married

Right on, Feb-bride!!!...but I think I'd draw the line on a Speedo! Hehehe...

I'd like to echo my sister's words...and send condolences to the many recently broken couples and families.

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posted by marriedx2

well i guess things are a little more in perspective for everyone nowadays. i had a family member of my husbands show up in a hawiian shirt and shorts oh well not every one has taste.....best advice smile thanks for coming, and move on to the next guest. we all will be looking at things in a new light for quite some time i hope. my condolenses(dont think i spelt that right sorry)to any one who comes to this forum who has lost a loved one friends, family, neighbor acquaintance, the whole nation's thoughts , hopes and prayers are with you. let's also remember our families who may have loved ones called to duty i'd like to share a poem my sister sent me. my sister, brother and brother-in-law are all in the service and i hope if called they will make it home safely to me .......

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posted by marriedx2

BRAVE HEARTS It is the serviceman, Not the reporter who has given us freedom of press. It is the serviceman, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the serviceman, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the serviceman, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows protestors to burn the flag..... lets all keep our brothers and sisters who serve in the armed forces in a special place in our hearts while our country decides on their future actions against these terrorists.

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posted by booky61

AMEN!!!!